JUANA SUMMERS, HOST:
A federal judge in Rhode Island has ordered the Trump administration to pay full SNAP food benefits to people and to do so by tomorrow. The judge criticized the government for not considering the consequences of slashing the nation's biggest anti-hunger program. The Trump administration immediately appealed that decision. NPR's Jennifer Ludden joins us with more. Hi there.
JENNIFER LUDDEN, BYLINE: Hi.
SUMMERS: Jennifer, this is a huge change from the last ruling, which was nearly a week ago, and you've been following all of these twists and turns. And as you've reported, the administration was planning partial SNAP payments. What happened today?
LUDDEN: Well, a group of cities and nonprofits that had sued over Trump cutting off SNAP were not pleased with this idea of partial payments for November. Recall the administration had been planning to cut benefits by 50%. Actually, just last night, it recalculated and sent out new guidance saying it was lowering that to a 35% cut, although many people would have seen much deeper cuts than that. But the plaintiffs in this lawsuit said partial payments are not enough. They argued officials were not moving fast enough. And, you know, we've already heard states say it could take them weeks to get out payments. So this group went back to court asking for full SNAP benefits, and Judge John McConnell Jr. agreed in an oral ruling from the bench.
SUMMERS: And to be clear, this judge had signed off on partial payments. So what did he have to say about why he was changing his order?
LUDDEN: A key point for the judge was a Truth Social post by President Trump two days ago. In it, Trump said SNAP benefits, quote, "will be given only when the radical left Democrats open up government, which they can easily do, and not before." Now, shortly after that, White House press secretary Karoline Leavitt went, no, no, no, no, no. She told reporters the administration was continuing to work on making partial payments happen. But speaking from the bench this afternoon, Judge McConnell said that post showed intent to defy a court order. McConnell also said the government failed to consider the practical consequences when it chose to only partially fund SNAP. He said it was clear they knew there could be long delays, and those delays, he said, are harmful to the people who rely on these benefits.
SUMMERS: So this was a really dramatic turn today, and it's one that could turn again given the administration's appeal. But funding full SNAP benefits during the shutdown has been a big issue in this case all along, right?
LUDDEN: That's right. It's been a point of contention. The judge in this case ordered the Trump administration to use a 4- or $5 billion contingency fund to at least pay partial benefits. But he and another judge in Boston in a separate lawsuit both said there is a bigger pot of money from customs revenues that the Trump administration could use to make full SNAP payments. Now, the government had declined to do that. It said it wants to keep that money for other uses like child nutrition programs. But depending on how this appeal plays out, of course, if there is a final order to make full SNAP payments, that bigger pot is where they may turn for the money.
SUMMERS: I guess one question I have is what this means for the states. They administer SNAP benefits, and they were supposed to be working on getting partial payments out, and now there's been this big switch.
LUDDEN: Yes, they have been scrambling. This order would make them scramble again. Now, with an appeal, it may put things on hold and in limbo. You know, we've certainly heard from several states that the administration's partial payment formula is complicated, it's labor intensive, that it could take some places weeks to get that money to people. And policy analysts say it's just much easier and faster to stick with what the system is already set up for, which is, you know, people's regular full payments. But if states are now on hold, that also means, you know, the millions of people who rely on this food aid will also be in limbo again, wondering how much and when they may get benefits.
SUMMERS: NPR's Jennifer Ludden, thank you.
LUDDEN: Thank you. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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