AILSA CHANG, HOST:
The Senate has voted to fund the government through January. Late last night, a handful of Senate Democrats broke with their party and sided with Republicans. For more, we're going to turn now to Republican strategist Mike Ricci. He has worked with several congressional Republicans, including former speakers John Boehner and Paul Ryan, and Ricci was on the Hill for government shutdowns in 2013 and 2018 going into 2019. I spoke with him before the Senate vote today.
CHANG: OK, so we love to say government shutdowns feel like a movie that just keeps on...
MIKE RICCI: (Laughter).
CHANG: ...Replaying. Has this shutdown felt any different to you?
RICCI: Well, to your point, you know, you go into these trying to have a sense of how they'll end. And your job is to kind of know kind of how to get to the ending, the denouement, if you will. And this shutdown, there just never was a sense of, you know, how are they going to land this plane? How are they going to stick this landing?
CHANG: Yeah.
RICCI: And, you know, instead, we got kind of this underwhelming, you know, exit last night and tonight. They're kind of rushing out of there. So it's hard to believe that after such a long ordeal that it's happening so abruptly.
CHANG: I was going to ask you what you thought of the deal. You find it totally underwhelming?
RICCI: Well, I think, again, you know, perception is destiny for these leaders. And so you want to - if you're going to go into a big fight like this, you want to have a sense of - you know, there's a lot of showmanship involved, and you want to sell the deal. And you want to - you know, you can win by losing and saying, look, we got more than we thought we could, than Republicans thought we could. And, you know, instead, it was kind of a handful of Senate Democrats, nobody in leadership really, at a press conference last night instead of, you know, leadership's Chuck Schumer, especially, kind of dictating the pace of things. And again, it's just very much underwhelming after such a long ordeal.
CHANG: Yeah. Well, let's talk about blame because this shutdown...
RICCI: Sure.
CHANG: ...It's another example of how both parties blame each other for some problem.
RICCI: Yeah.
CHANG: Who do you see getting the blame here? - because, yes, Republicans are in control of Congress, but, you know, here's a small faction of Democrats breaking away from their leaders to make this deal. Who do you think is going to be held responsible for the last several weeks?
RICCI: Well, I think I'm going to punt a bit and say that we're kind of in a runoff, if you will, here to see what happens in the next 30 days or so with the health care subsidies. And if Democrats can figure out - 'cause they said they would get a vote on these subsidies. And so if everything is about the cost of living now, as we saw in last week's elections, and you can frame the next 30 days around health care and around the cost of living going into the holidays, then Democrats have a chance to shift the blame back to President Trump and Republicans.
But if this becomes about the division among Democrats that we're seeing play out on social media once again, as we have time and again, then, you know, Democrats will miss an opportunity here to really keep Republicans on the defensive. So, you know, I think there's going to be a bit of an overtime period here, if you will, to really see how it lands. And, you know, obviously, we didn't see the worst of it with SNAP benefits or even with, you know, air travel.
CHANG: Yeah...
RICCI: But...
CHANG: ...With Thanksgiving coming up.
RICCI: ...You know, that probably would have been where the blame really would have set in, but perhaps they've cut that off here at the pass.
CHANG: Well, I'm asking about blame because blame obviously most matters when there's an election. How much do you...
RICCI: Yeah.
CHANG: ...Think voters will remember this fight a year from now when they're voting in the midterms?
RICCI: Very little.
CHANG: (Laughter).
RICCI: I was part of the shutdown in October 2013, and I thought it was going to be the end of everything. And we won the next election 13 months later. You know, we could - if you - if I - you know, you could point out things that happened two, three months ago that you forgot almost happened. So I think very little, but it does affect the dynamics of how these parties, you know, get together, how they have a coherent message for the midterms. You know, a lot of Democrats are going to be having conversations in the next few days of whether Chuck Schumer should still be, you know, one of their leaders, and that obviously takes away time and energy from...
CHANG: Yeah.
RICCI: ...Fighting in the election.
CHANG: Well, last question for you. I mean, obviously, we're seeing fault lines among Democrats, at least in the Senate. What kind of tensions are you seeing among Republicans right now?
RICCI: So, you know, Speaker Mike Johnson took the extraordinary step of keeping the House away now for, I think, almost 50 days, and bringing them back, that'll be a bit of a - there'll be a bit of venting and a bit of decompression there. And we'll see how much Republicans resented that and how much, you know, they're able to get back together on the same page. Again, Democrats kind of fighting with each other probably convinces them that they got a good win here, and maybe that's a way to move past last week's elections. But those first 24, 48 hours when the House comes back, you're going to want to watch closely what members are saying and how much theatrics there are towards the speaker there.
CHANG: That is Republican strategist Mike Ricci. Thank you very much.
RICCI: Thank you. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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