SCOTT SIMON, HOST:
I bet you know that U.S. airports have been in turmoil lately.
(SOUNDBITE OF TV SHOW, "FOX NEWS")
SEAN DUFFY: We had cancellations well above 4%. It was a mess. On Saturday, 81 staffing triggers in the national airspace. And again, if you traveled those days, you know how bad it was with the cancellations.
SIMON: That's Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy on Fox News this week. Even though the government shutdown is over and air traffic controllers are getting paid again, it could still be several days until air travel is back to normal, which poses the question, in an era of government shutdowns and threats of shutdowns, is there a better way to keep air controllers on the job? Robert Poole believes the government should get out of the business of air traffic control, like Canada did nearly 30 years ago. Mr. Poole is director of transportation policy at the Reason Foundation, a libertarian think tank, and he joins us now. Thanks so much for being with us.
ROBERT POOLE: I'm glad to be here, Scott.
SIMON: How would making air traffic controllers private employees improve things?
POOLE: It turns out that it's not just Canada. There are 94 countries where a shutdown of air traffic system because of government budget could not happen. These other air traffic service providers are not part of the government budget. They've been essentially depoliticized. Most of them are still government corporations, but they get all of their funding directly from aviation user fees. And all around the world, airlines, business jets pay those fees, practically every place except in U.S. airspace.
We have the system funded by the ticket tax that you and I and everyone pays when we fly. That's the principal source of funding for the FAA. You would sever the connection between the tax system and the organization and funding of the air traffic system. And that's the method that I think would be the best solution to the problems that we've had during this unprecedented length of government shutdown.
SIMON: But don't labor actions happen under the ordinary circumstances of life?
POOLE: They do happen, particularly in France. Fortunately, we don't have that. Since Ronald Reagan was president and fired a bunch of controllers for being on strike, it's against the law for controllers in the United States to strike.
SIMON: Do you have any concerns about safety that a private entity in the air traffic control business could look for ways to cut corners?
POOLE: That's certainly a thing to take into account. FAA has two functions. Number one, it's the safety regulator for all of aviation. Number two, it's the operator of the air traffic control system. Now, that is a conflict of interest, basically, because everything else in aviation, FAA regulates at arm's length. But it's regulating its own workforce when it regulates the air traffic system. I coauthored an article with a former FAA administrator about 15 years ago, pointing out several examples where you could contrast a fault in airline pilots who overflew at night but falling asleep, apparently, versus controllers being asleep at the switch. The FAA came down much harder on the airline pilots, and there were several examples cited in our article separating the air traffic system from FAA and setting it up as a separate entity. And I don't think necessarily should be private. It can be a government corporation, like most of the ones in the 95 countries that I mentioned.
SIMON: Would it be simpler just to pass a law that would require air traffic controllers to be paid during shutdowns?
POOLE: That would certainly help, but it wouldn't prevent the disruption that comes from having the government shutdown. You still are going to have controllers taking time off in a stressful situation like this. That would help, definitely, but I don't think it's the whole answer.
SIMON: You have been pushing this idea, and others have. A coalition from Al Gore to Donald Trump - not a phrase I get to say a lot - has been pushing this idea for some time. Why hasn't it happened?
POOLE: There are two main reasons. One is Congress loves to micromanage FAA. The FAA budget is pitiful, especially when it comes to air traffic control investment. Perhaps a bigger problem is all the private plane people in the United States. So they have a huge caucus - a general aviation caucus - in Congress. Some of those Congress members are actually pilots themselves. The money comes from the business jet organization, NBAA, National Business Aviation Association. Why are they so committed? Because unlike what business jets pay anywhere else in the world, including Canada, based on gross weight times distance flown, they pay a small fuel tax, which, according to FAA, covers about 10% of the allocated cost of patrolling all the business jet traffic in our airspace. So they're very powerful. They lobby a lot, and they have been the opponents every time there's been a serious effort to reform the system.
SIMON: Do you think the recent turmoil has renewed your argument, revitalized it, if you please?
POOLE: I think so, and I hope so. I mean, I've been doing interviews all week.
SIMON: (Laughter) Oh, so we're not the first people to think of you. Well.
POOLE: No. No. You're obviously the most important. So it's been an educational effort for me to really practice for what kind of questions might you ask today?
SIMON: Robert Poole is director of transportation policy at the Reason Foundation. Thanks so much for being with us, and clear skies is ahead for you, sir.
POOLE: Thank you very much. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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